Now here's my third question - and the one that I'm not sure can be answered, but one that I (me anyway) see as critical to making this whole warped universe work.
Let's say .. Canary follows Dick's descent into darkness because of all that guilt. The logic being: I'm guilty because I killed or mind-wiped. Ergo, I am a villain. Ergo, the Justice League and heroism are not real because they live in a false reality. Ergo, I will live by Slade's code even if it means killing and raising my kid as an assassin because it's the only honest one. Ergo, that means fighting the very heroes I swore friendship and love and brotherhood to.
Dinah's Filly's baby, so we'll leave Dinah-replies to her. But trust me, we're working on this already. For points one and two, that's... close enough to the logic I'm using. Point three--you've only got it half-right. The League yes. Heroism, heroing? No, neither one of them thinks it's a false reality, or something not worth doing... but Dick at least feels/knows he lost that life. Fourth point: Not the only one, but an honest one. And the one they've got at this point.
In the same way, once exposed,... what right do they have to cast the first stone in the light of IC?
They're heroes. They're not going to just buckle--and Slade's goals are particular.
Follow me so far?
At least predominantly.
First of all, Slade's mindfuckery of Dick is similar to the IC rape - and I wish someone would point that out. Because Slade doesn't have the moral ascendancy here and those heroes have no reason to buckle or capitulate. Everybody may screw up - but you have two choices: go straight the weay of darkness like Slade or turn back at a chance for real redemption. A series of mistakes will not make right one fatal sin committed at a juncture.
*sigh* Slade didn't do this to Dick. Dick did this to Dick, all on his own--Slade just pounced on it. …Dick's been in prison once. In Blackgate. He will do anything to never, EVER be back there again. A.ny.thing. In order to stay free. Boy flies too high and lives too large to let himself be caged--and you love him, that's obvious, you've got to get that.
And you got one hero who can speak of redemption…Hal Jordan. ... Dick's moaning over Blockbuster and Canary's crisis of conscience over IC are nothing compared to what Jordan did, regardless of his own mindfuckery.
The rewrite of Hal... we're not going there. DC did it, I have to accept it--but that doesn't mean I have to like it. And you're right. They're not. *does not go off on rant, does NOT*
But hey, he went back. He was able to go back home. He found redemption - real redemption - and went back into the light.
And yes, Final Night is one of the most awesome storylines ever--but "too bad he didn't live like one" is also still true.
Hal Jordan is no pollyana like Clark or a manipulator of fear like Batman. Nor he is crispy clean because he has his own share of sins. But he was able to stare guilt, death, and sin in the face - and rose above it to return.
All true. All true--*stops self Again*
I think Hal would present a more powerful polarity to Slade than Bruce. ... In contrast, Hal is the only hero who can honestly live by the credo "No fear!" even when staring at his own shadows.
That's what makes him a Green Lantern, yes... but does a hero's death redeem the way he lived that part of his life? Does it really?
He can call Slade's manipulation of Dick what it is and expose it for what it is. He can tell the other heroes, "Hey, I fucked up - but I came back. You don't have to go this way."
...Hal can sure as hell be one of the greatest motivating forces for the heroes--if people will listen to him.
And, no, he's not absent like Donna Troy. He's here. He's around in your universe. And just my two cents, the redemption he represents is not easily dismissable.
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Date: 2006-09-23 06:10 pm (UTC)Let's say .. Canary follows Dick's descent into darkness because of all that guilt. The logic being: I'm guilty because I killed or mind-wiped. Ergo, I am a villain. Ergo, the Justice League and heroism are not real because they live in a false reality. Ergo, I will live by Slade's code even if it means killing and raising my kid as an assassin because it's the only honest one. Ergo, that means fighting the very heroes I swore friendship and love and brotherhood to.
Dinah's Filly's baby, so we'll leave Dinah-replies to her. But trust me, we're working on this already. For points one and two, that's... close enough to the logic I'm using. Point three--you've only got it half-right. The League yes. Heroism, heroing? No, neither one of them thinks it's a false reality, or something not worth doing... but Dick at least feels/knows he lost that life. Fourth point: Not the only one, but an honest one. And the one they've got at this point.
In the same way, once exposed,... what right do they have to cast the first stone in the light of IC?
They're heroes. They're not going to just buckle--and Slade's goals are particular.
Follow me so far?
At least predominantly.
First of all, Slade's mindfuckery of Dick is similar to the IC rape - and I wish someone would point that out. Because Slade doesn't have the moral ascendancy here and those heroes have no reason to buckle or capitulate. Everybody may screw up - but you have two choices: go straight the weay of darkness like Slade or turn back at a chance for real redemption. A series of mistakes will not make right one fatal sin committed at a juncture.
*sigh* Slade didn't do this to Dick. Dick did this to Dick, all on his own--Slade just pounced on it. …Dick's been in prison once. In Blackgate. He will do anything to never, EVER be back there again. A.ny.thing. In order to stay free. Boy flies too high and lives too large to let himself be caged--and you love him, that's obvious, you've got to get that.
And you got one hero who can speak of redemption…Hal Jordan.
... Dick's moaning over Blockbuster and Canary's crisis of conscience over IC are nothing compared to what Jordan did, regardless of his own mindfuckery.
The rewrite of Hal... we're not going there. DC did it, I have to accept it--but that doesn't mean I have to like it. And you're right. They're not. *does not go off on rant, does NOT*
But hey, he went back. He was able to go back home. He found redemption - real redemption - and went back into the light.
And yes, Final Night is one of the most awesome storylines ever--but "too bad he didn't live like one" is also still true.
Hal Jordan is no pollyana like Clark or a manipulator of fear like Batman. Nor he is crispy clean because he has his own share of sins. But he was able to stare guilt, death, and sin in the face - and rose above it to return.
All true. All true--*stops self Again*
I think Hal would present a more powerful polarity to Slade than Bruce. ... In contrast, Hal is the only hero who can honestly live by the credo "No fear!" even when staring at his own shadows.
That's what makes him a Green Lantern, yes... but does a hero's death redeem the way he lived that part of his life? Does it really?
He can call Slade's manipulation of Dick what it is and expose it for what it is. He can tell the other heroes, "Hey, I fucked up - but I came back. You don't have to go this way."
...Hal can sure as hell be one of the greatest motivating forces for the heroes--if people will listen to him.
And, no, he's not absent like Donna Troy. He's here. He's around in your universe. And just my two cents, the redemption he represents is not easily dismissable.
Yeah, Hal's there--Hal needs to be there.